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I
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri in
1944 the allies and the Greek partisans
liberated the country from Nazi
occupation it was a bloody and bitter
campaign made more so by the presence of
Nazi Collaborators amongst the Greeks
who had assisted in the Holocaust of the
occupation the allies Britain and the US
and the then Soviet Union had worked
closely with the Greek partisans who
were indispensable allies so it ought to
have been a joyous occasion when on
December 3rd
1944 crowds of anti-fascists gathered in
Aton Sy TMA Square waving the flags of
the Allied Nations and chanting Viva
Churchill Viva Roosevelt Viva Stalin but
not so fearing that the anti-fascist
resistance in Greece was becoming too
strong too leftwing and too likely to
take power after the war confounding
Churchill's plan to reinstate the king
and the old order so the British brought
the former Nazi Collaborators onto the
rooftops around the square gave them
back their automatic weapons and ordered
them to open fire on their earthw allies
murdering 28 mostly young boys and girls
in Cold Blood and injuring hundreds of
dancing singing demonstrators
a civil war ensued with Britain and US
becking the obvious site the site who'
been killing British soldiers just a few
months before joining us now to discuss
what happened next is a brave British
woman who worked in the Greek anti
fascist underground during the dark days
of the Greek military Juna the colonels
who seized power in the aftermath her
name is Judy cter Judy welcome to the
Sputnik you were the first ever woman
vice president of the national Union of
students and they sent you in
underground in Greece we'll come to that
in just a minute but first your reaction
to the Guardians Revelations this week
about the British culpability absolute
culpability in the massacre in sintagma
square well it's uh it doesn't surprise
me because I think it's a lot of people
don't understand the dirty tricks that
the British government got under
um during that period uh after
45
uh before the end of the uh Second World
War the British government even brought
British troops out of Italy where a
critical point in defending the uh
defeating the Nazis they actually
brought British troops out just in order
to uh suppress the left partisan and
popular move M ments it's a shameful
period in our in our history basically
Churchill was refocusing he had used and
been happy to work alongside the Soviet
Union uh and these left leaning partisan
movements in Yugoslavia and Greece and
Italy uh and indeed in France uh but as
soon as it looked like the Nazis were on
their way out he refocused on what was
going to happen after the war turned
British guns on their own allies yeah AB
absolutely I mean you have to remember
at this period um and following it in
the 70s when I was involved you had
Fascist governments in Portugal in Spain
but you also had popular movements in
France and in Italy and as you say
Churchill was worried that there'd be a
most of Western Europe would be led by
left leaning Progressive governments and
part of the whole Cold War ethos his
Cold War ethos he had to he felt it was
in British interest to suppress these
popular movements including murdering
them including murdering them and in
fact this is unbelievable in some ways
he the S soe the Special Operations
executive uh the sort of Secret Service
that had worked with the partisans
during the war to
uh defeat the Nazis they came to respect
the partisans for what they were doing
so Churchill had the MI6 brought in and
we believe that in fact MI6 even
murdered uh some of the S soe Executives
well it's not called perfidious albian
for nothing let's fast forward just a
little bit to uh 1973 you the first uh
woman vice president of the national
Union of students then a left leaning
organization and you're sent in
underground under the colonel uh
Colonels the fascist Juna in Greece tell
us about that well I was given respon
what was called anti-fascist
responsibility because as I've drawn a
picture of that was the state of uh
Europe Western Europe at the at that
time you also had the end of uh the
Vietnam War and Shenanigans in Latin in
Latin americ America and in Africa so I
was asked to uh pursue the progressive
policies of n us at that time so I went
underground uh to look at what was
happening to the students because the
students there had been nearly seven
years of uh fascist government the
colonels had three Colonels and about
half the Greek army had uh moved to in a
put basically to remove uh the
democratic government and they pursued a
policy of not only you there were no
elections uh Communist party in fact all
political parties were
outlawed uh people had no Democratic
voice
whatsoever they ruled by repression the
use of
torture um and I was asked to to go in
to get a proper picture because it
wasn't being reported in the Press
Greece was still a nice place you went
for your holidays um I was asked to go
underground and get a clear picture of
what was happening and I did uh
alongside me was a woman Mary calman
who' been a prosecutor in the Newburg
trials um American woman she was looking
at what was happening to women and trade
unionist who were also being tortured I
remember one day they uh the first part
of my time there I was sort of
underground uh the British Embassy the
American Embassy knew nothing about what
we were doing um this was to protect the
people that we were trying to talk to to
find out and in that first three weeks I
met up with the families of students who
were being kept in these interrogation
and torture centers and there was one
particular torture Center in the of
Athens you wouldn't have believed that's
what it was it wasn't even a police
station and opposite it was a cafe and I
would go and wait in the cafe and when
the coast was clear I would step out to
the back sit amongst all the bottles and
the parents of the students would come
in and talk to me show me the blood
bloody
clothes of their sons and daughters and
tell me about what was going on and uh
what I learned about the tortures was
quite
horrific um electric shock treatments
rape other sexual
abuse uh
water uh deprivation food deprivation
pulling the fingernails
out the it was just
horrific after about 3 weeks when I had
got enough information there was I know
hundreds were being kept in uh detention
centers torture centers I uh focused on
about 120 and then 12 of the the leaders
who I understood were close to death's
door and um I took a chance I think you
sort of I was young I was in my 20s and
I thought I was
Untouchable um I can't believe I did
this now but I waited and to try to get
into one of the uh torture centers uh
because as people who involved in
Amnesty International and other
organizations know that if the torturers
know that people outside know outside um
it can make a life and death difference
to what is going on luckily I turned up
at a day when bosu was one of the
colonels was outside giving a um a press
in interview to the world's press and so
I use the opportunity to start calling
out the names of the students who I knew
were inside and being tortured and I
actually managed because they were at
gas in the chaos that follow to get
myself in and call out the names uh the
lesson of all of this surely is not just
perfidious Albin and the disgraceful
role that it played uh after uh the
imminent defeat of fascism played a
great role in the defeat of fascism then
turned its guns on the enemies of
and continues to cause wreckage and
Carnage throughout the world but also
that brave people who stand up and take
the side of the oppressed can have a an
impact one year after your mission I'm
not suggesting you brought it about uh
the the the Jun fell and democracy uh
returned to Greece that's the message
isn't it yeah it is the message the
progressive movements uh in in Britain
students the Trade union movement U
organizations like Amnesty International
and so on their voice was being heard
and getting stronger about this when
they got the information about what was
going on and the British foreign office
and the powers that be it was no longer
in their interest necessarily to uh
support such crude
uh fascist uh leadership and that was a
lesson right the way through uh the' 70s
you know the United States couldn't
defeat the Vietnamese MH and one of the
factors in that was not just the
struggle of the Reames people themselves
but people around the world were saying
no we don't want to be a part of this
and us got to withdraw and similarly and
you know when I look back at it at that
time everywhere you looked Britain's
dirty tricks Department their their
fingerprints were on everything but
getting rid of progressive leaders in
Iraq and
Iran uh later on us involvement in
Chile even in Africa in uh Ghana getting
rid of theuma progressive government and
the M of lumba in movement yeah you
seemed Fearless at the time did you not
fear for your own life and how how was
your own security not really but I the
real Fearless ones were of course those
students and women and Trade union
leaders who were being who were
imprisoned and being tortured at the
times they were the ones who were
Fearless Judy Cotter thank you very much
coming up after the break if you're
black you better not show up on the
street in Ferguson Missouri or anywhere
else in America it's beginning to seem
The Killing Fields of Barack Obama's
Urban America with black civil rights
leader Lee Jasper right after this
welcome back to Sputnik white police
officers shooting or choking to death
unarmed black men is hardly a new thing
in the land of the free grand juries
garlanding the perpetrators who then
become The Darlings of the talk shows
and the tea parties is rather more
disturbing seeming to indicate that
Justice is breaking down for Black
America and under the country's first
black president on board the Sputnik
today is the Undisputed champion of the
fight for justice not just for people of
color but for the poor and downtrodden
everywhere my old friend Lee jaspar Lee
welcome to the show choking to death a
black man unarmed for selling cigarettes
on the street in New York City not in
the Deep
South The Grand Jury says the officer
who choked him to death is not to be
prosecuted but the man who filmed it all
is being prosecuted am I right is this
actually beginning now to break down
visibly in front of our eyes well it
makes the assumption that Justice was
built up for
African-Americans uh the reality is the
reality is there two million
African-Americans in lockdown as we
speak in American jails and they're
there for all sorts of spurious charges
uh fake accusations are really victims
of uh systemic and cultural
institutionalized racis m in the
American justice system and of course
George you got to remember Tamir rice
was shot he was 12 years old 12 years
old and he was on the playground I
understand he's on a playground he's
dead he Now lies on a Mory slab uh we
have the case of the young man who was
running with his daughter to get a
asthma pump because she was having an
asthma attack shot dead we have the case
of Mike Brown uh who we all know in in
Ferguson shot dead there is a killing
spre going on in America and black men's
lives uh uh do matter but they're
currently endangered by the criminal
justice system and this is happening
under Barack Obama has he got anything
to say about it and Eric Holder by the
way who's also a black attorney general
I think that you know if you think that
replacing uh a black face uh on in a
high place solves your problems of
tackling racism then you're guilty of
the worst type of naivity and tokenism
what you need is a systemic change in
order to tackle institutional racism is
not capable of being changed by force of
Personality such as endemic strength and
M Barack Obama has already showed his
true neoliberal colors on International
Affairs uh poverty has increased for
African-Americans unemployment has
increased and all over the world where
the austerity agenda is RIT large we see
it acting as a magnifying glass on on
racism and institutionalized racism both
in America here in UK and in wider
Europe well the American case is uh not
that surprising and you've just uh
corrected me uh my question assumed uh a
level of justice for African-Americans
that didn't actually exist I just had
the feeling in Ferguson and so on when
the kind of militarized police response
just seemed to me a qualitative uh step
change but I may be wrong about that but
in Britain and indeed in Europe the same
thing is happening well we all also the
tragic varo recently of Eric Ghana uh
whose tragic last words I can't breathe
I can't breathe now I've been taken up
as long with hands up don't shoot as the
sort of uh uh uh mive Cry The Last Words
absolutely for black Justice in America
and for justice universally and here in
the United Kingdom we have our own Eric
Garner video it's been out for a number
of years it's Christopher Adler the
paratrooper the British paratrooper who
came back from Hull who's filmed and on
video lying naked on a floor with his
hands tight behind his back his pants
down beh his knees uh and choking to
death on his own vomit while officers
stand around giggling and laughing at
him these are real cases that you can
see now Janet Adler is his sister been
campaigning for justice we have Kingsley
Burell from Birmingham phoned the police
because he was threatened by a gang who
were waiting for him and his sun outside
the shop the police arrived 3 days later
with their head the size of a melon uh
Kingsley Burell writes a note to his
sister saying they're trying to kill me
after he's committed to a mental
institution and 24 hours later he died
Alton Manning Smiley Culture uh Mark
Dugen sha rig another gruesome case of
uh caught on video of a young man dying
in Brixton police station in the
reception area uh and uh it goes wider a
field than that if we look at southern
Europe we see Africans being being
lynched shot and murdered in southern
Italy
uh uh by Neo fascist groups uh in
addition to what's happening in Greece
so austerity is ramping up racism
worldwide and neoliberal sentiment is to
continue to push that to divide to
divert people's attention away from the
real authors of the economic destruction
the casino investment bankers and their
uh plutocratic mates who have uh
destroyed the economies of the western
world and are now blaming blacks
migrants and anybody they can and
ironically these people are only in
Italy because of NATO Wars against their
own countries and black people I mean
Gaddafi was was a shambolic leader no
doubt but but you Champion hold on well
let's say Exploder because for the black
community if you talk about Gaddafi
you're talking about a champion putting
aside his idiosyncratic ways and he had
many in relation to his commitment to
African and Africa he was the one who
ensured there was no very little
discrimination against Africans from
Southern Africa in in North Africa he
was the champion against that sort of
discrimination and he supported the
African Union with millions of petrol
dollars and the African National the
African
National Thomas Sakara and the and the
and the struggle against Portugese
colonialism um no no no doubt about that
and and that's why after the overthrow
of Gaddafi uh the people who overthrew
him began to Lynch black people that's
right in Libya black people then flee on
boats they arrive in Italy and they're
gunned down by the people in Italy who
sunk in their own economic
problems all these uh uh black people
arriving from Africa and uh M them if
you go to Southern Italy and hi been it
reminds me of the I think I'm in a 1950
is uh uh you know Mockingbird movie it's
reminiscent of that uh the racism is
naked it's in front of your face there's
no shame about it there's no restraint
about it uh in Greece the Golden Dawn
and the police have been proven uh to be
one and the same Off Duty Officers uh
acting as the golden Dawn's the the
fascist party outfit working with Greek
police to round up African migrants into
concentration camps on the outskirts of
a
uh wherever the economic crisis is
acutest racism is is is is uh inversely
rising in proportion to that crisis with
with fascism on its heels not far not
far behind gar I wonder whether this
doesn't build up to some sort of intera
amongst black people in in the US and
and here in Britain and Europe well of
course here in United Kingdom we we saw
in the aftermath of Mart Dugan's uh uh
tragic death where the police accused
him of shooting them and in fact no he
had no weapon at all an uprising I think
that due to austerity economic crisis uh
the country at the moment particularly
in the inner city areas where poor white
black Irish others live is like a
Tinderbox uh and the least catalytic
flame will set it roaring it's not
generally known by the mainstream Media
or the liberal establishment but I
predicted the riot of 2011 in January
2011 after the death of Smiley Culture I
said the black community was at boiling
point we're still at boiling point
because no just has been served for any
there's not a single officer been
charged with the death the murder or
even any Associated crime um neglect of
Duty or anything with the death of a
black man in British custody ever ever
and so we we like the Americans say that
again there's no never a
charge any prison officer police officer
on the death of any black prisoner
anytime anywhere any not in the United
Kingdom no I I'll be correct if I'm
saying I don't think that's even
happened in the United States and there
are 13 cases in the United Kingdom
history that have been put before a jury
and even with compelling evidence the
jury always sides with the police that's
what exactly what happened in the grand
jury and that's why my position has
always been you can't have all white
juries making assessments of Justice I
mean the Ferguson case was an allh jury
wasn't it yeah it was in an
area all yes well is uh extraordinary I
I must say in Missouri uh but it's more
extraordinary in New York New York City
and the choking to death of this black
man on camera how could that not lead to
charges it's actually almost if it
weren't for the fact we're talking about
the death of a man it would be laughable
it's like a joke that it's there on
camera the police officers are choking
the man to death for selling cigarettes
on the street
but nobody gets judged except the one
who's filming it except the guy who
films it well he's under arrest you try
and make sense of racism and it'll leave
you as confused uh Angry uh and incensed
as it does the black community because
it makes no sense because racism as a
thought process is a mental illness that
makes no sense and so there's no
understanding the Injustice that
happened to Eric Eric Gardner and that's
why you've seen uh the the roads in New
York blocked people on the street uh
next Wednesday we'll have a we're trying
to organize a public meeting here in
international solidarity meeting for the
victims of police brutality U worldwide
in solidarity here and abroad it racism
makes no sense it never has done and
that's why you need systemic legislation
if you have a a case that involves race
you must have a multi-racial jury you
must because racism by its very nature
uh is difficult to see for those who
enjoy white privilege and when they
enjoy it they don't see black injustice
people should follow you on Twitter
because you're involved in all these
campaigns and that's the best way to get
involved Lee Jasper as always fantastic
interview thanks very
much and now it's your turn to tell us
what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling Guri well
many people including myself didn't know
about the history uh of Athens in 1944
so I asked what is Britain's
responsibility in the massacre of these
Greek anti-fascist and Brian Murray
answered that 20 years ago such a
statement would have caused outrage but
the world is waking up to their
atrocities and then I asked the people
what their verdict is on uh American
police brutality and Martin Ralph
answers I would say that neoliberals
ignore structural racism and try to
individualize it Rachel devoy adds that
actually racism hasn't reemerged more
likely has never left true but uh as Lee
pointed out when the economy collapses
when there's economic depression the uh
indigenous or white population uh turns
its guns on the other rather than the
people who have caused the collapse of
the economy it's clear statistics
actually yeah you just have to you can
you can directly correlate the monograph
well that's all for this week which alas
means that's the end of the show you can
keep in touch with us on Twitter at rtor
Sputnik and on Facebook you can like us
on Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye
from me gatri I'm from me George
Galloway it's been marvelous
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